@chiasm Though given that I can't help but wonder why there wasn't any large-scale recognition that by the time it became a partisan wedge issue (IIRC by the end of April 2020) *any* plan that required near-universal cooperation and compliance was doomed to failure, and they should focus their energies elsewhere, to do what they could on their own.

@chiasm "Do you mean to tell me we will be unable to persuade these people?"
"That's about the size of it!"

This conversation has the air of that scene in "Dr. Strangelove" I just paraphrased (between Turgidson and the President). 🙃

More seriously, if you're saying that probably *nothing* would have worked on them I concede you're probably right, at least in most cases; though I still maintain that the communitarian messaging probably hurt on the margin.

This is my piece "Another Earth through an Aurora", an ethereal vision of a world where if they looked up at the northern lights, instead of the Moon, they'd see an Earth-like orb.

Be a lady or gentleman of leisure, but be an *active* one; fill your days with the most wholesome creative arts that make your sleep as contended as the little darling in John Reinhard Weguelin's "The Tired Dancer".

@inference Ah, I see. I'm very sure that I'd be in the same spot myself without being into dancing; that's where all my real-world friends and my whole social circle come from.

@inference @Hyolobrika @cy I've never had the slightest problem talking to people (though as an introvert it is draining after a while...); my problem is that it's hard for me to find somebody I like that much! So i can talk to them and even see them regularly but not feel like establishing any remotely intimate connection (with very few exceptions, who I cherish!).

@michaelgraaf Try using robots to do everything the Apollo astronauts did on the Moon. Putting a man on the ground is still vastly superior to any robot in terms of scientific effectiveness, it's just that it's much more expensive.

Though if you're saying that science is not one of the more compelling reasons for human spaceflight, I actually agree; recreation, broadly construed, or, if you will, active leisure, is *the* compelling reason to go. See also mountaineering.

@cy I've been toying with the idea of making that something of a goal for 2022. Maybe I should at least try.

Anyway, it's been nice having this online conversation with you, and I wish you the best with your efforts in real life too!

@cy Though I probably could do a lot better than I do now with the social circle I've already got, in terms of doing a lot more stuff together and being in each other's lives more, not to mention branching out and extending myself (maybe there are even some links back to my local area to people I'd like there!). But I'm a bit of a lazy procrastinator, so when faced with any task that big I just out it on the shelf...for weeks, months, then years. *sighs*

@cy Though I don't do it because I love making a super-commute so much (I'd rather be a road warrior for road trips, not everyday!), but rather primarily because the housing is so much more expensive closer to where my social venues and friends are that I just can't stomach the expense; not at my level of wealth at any rate. The sacrifice would be worse than the driving!

@cy I appreciate your sentiment, but it's not like it's a question of better versus "not as good but still pleasant" companionship, it's more like pleasant companionship versus "can't wait to get out of here".

Helps that I have a good car and actually like driving, but even then the parts of the drive with traffic really grind me down; when I go to my massage therapist there's always tension in my neck from being bounced up and down from all those potholes, and that stop-and-go jerking...

@chiasm What *would* work on such people I'm not sure, other than messaging revolving around protecting *yourself*. Interestingly, many of the same people in these situations who are poo-pooing masks now were busily trying to secure supplies and eagerly wearing them in winter and spring 2020 when the idea was masks were self-protection. In this regard the "masks protect other people, not yourself!" messaging might have been an unforced error.

@chiasm And what I was getting at with all this is that the do-it-for-the-local-community messaging is perceived by people in these situations (myself included TBH!) as "we want you to suffer for the sake of people you don't know and don't care about", which for obvious reasons never works, but the people putting this stuff out don't understand that, since they don't live that kind of lifestyle and probably nobody they know does. So their messaging's ineffectiveness just mystifies them.

@cy And yes, i know I'm extremely choosy and picky compared to most people, but if I just don't feel a connection or liking toward somebody I don't. Nothing I can do about it. 🤷‍♀️

@cy I have people I care about in real life (i.e. not just on the Internet) within reach, but as in "one or two hours' drive" reach, not "live right next door to them" reach. So to the extent I have a "community" it's not what I'd call local (as in oriented around the town, city, or even metro area I live in). I have to cast that wide of a net to find anybody I have anything in common with, can connect to at all, or actually like. And even then it's relatively slim pickings.

@chiasm I know of one more-distant relative who went to college all the way through graduate school and really liked it and was successful with it. But even then it was for studying something she was passionate about, which is probably her secret right there.

@chiasm Assuming everybody is like yourself is a thing; I'm always surprised that as many people go to college as actually do (what are most of them studying, anyway!?), but I never went to college, and few people in my family did. Two of my grandparents didn't even go to high school (both got GEDs, but when they were like 40). Most in my family are that classic "smart, curious, and intellectual, but hate school" type. And I definitely inherited it.

@chiasm Though the numbers you cite surprise me in other ways; I would have thought seeking a better environment (presumably including finding aesthetics, people, friends, hobby scenes, etc. that you vibe with better, which I'd think would be a very common motive) would be the primary driver for a *lot* more than 12% of those who move out, considering many (most?) people have jobs and careers you can pursue in basically any major city.

@chiasm In particular I was thinking about:
1. Fewer people know their neighbors well
2. Drop in civic involvement
3. Decline in number of friends, close friends, and confidantes
4. Rise in number of people who are divorced, separated, never-married, or who never have children
5. Rise of the contingent workforce

I've long been aware that residential mobility has actually *declined*, but while people are physically resident in these places they have much fewer meaningful social ties to them.

I bring this up because so many people seem to think "safety-ism" is some emanation of the Left or just appeared recently, but the horrifying truth is the culture of fear been deeply entrenched across a broad cross-section of our society and culture for a long time.

Image is George Romney's portrait of lovely Emma Hamilton as Ariadne.

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Adamas Nemesis

A personal node in the decentralized social network of the future for Adamas Nemesis: blogger, science-fiction writer, artist, and more.